The Independent has scooped today that Israeli troops were indeed allowed to shoot and kill civilians during the 22-day invasion to Gaza. It has also been scooped by the Independent that a Military commander expressed his views on palestinian lives saying that Palestinian lives were (according to the Independent) "very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers."
Israel made a mistake. And what country in the history of the world does not make mistakes when it comes to war? From the British to the Americans, they have all made worse mistakes and in many cases, the world has said nothing. Many people believe that so far, Israel only invaded Gaza City to kill innocent civilians, when there has only been proved that one commander ordered to kill a group of people.
One soldier said that he was ordered to shoot at an elderly woman who was only 100 metres away from the soldiers. Another soldier revealed how the lives of a mother and her children were taken by a sniper.
The Independent also reported: "A aquad leader said: At the beginning the directive was to enter a house with an armoured vehicle, to break the door down, to start shooting inside and - I call it murder - to shoot at everyone we identify. In the beginning I asked myself how could this make sense? Higher-ups said it is permissible because everyone left in the city (Gaza city) is culpable because they didn't run away."
The Times Online reported that an official investigation has been started by international authorities because Israel might have broken human right laws while the military operation in Gaza was taking place earlier this year.
Israel made a mistake. And what country in the history of the world does not make mistakes when it comes to war? From the British to the Americans, they have all made worse mistakes and in many cases, the world has said nothing. Many people believe that so far, Israel only invaded Gaza City to kill innocent civilians, when there has only been proved that one commander ordered to kill a group of people. Don't get me wrong, the action of killing the civilians was wrong and those in charge of the brutal operation must be punished, but not those who carried out the operation because they were simply following orders.
But if I had to express my personal view I would say that if the Palestinians had been in the same position as the Israelis, they would have done the same or worse. At least the Israelis do not rape women like many African terror groups do.
Unfortunately, people tend to forget that the Middle East is a complicating and very different place from the West. Most of the innocent civilians' deaths in the operation were taken by Israeli army soldiers because Hamas was hiding behind them. Plus, most of the children's deaths were caused because Hamas used them as soldiers or human shelters, just as it (Hamas) did to many other innocent lives, including women.
I'm not justifying anyone, but when you live under rocket fires for more than eight years, and you just get tired of political talking and appeals and all the paper work, once you invade the country from where the rockets come from, you do not think who and what you are killing and you just want to take revenge. I'm not saying it's right, no, it is wrong, but that is what happens.
If Hamas really cared about its people - as they claimed - why didn't they then give up their weapons and their rocket instruments? Why didn't they take the opportunity to cease fire once and for all? No, instead they started to fire rockets to south Israel.
If Gaza is in this situation is because of themselves and because of Hamas, and I am afraid - and very much sorry for the lives that are yet to be taken by the Israeli soldiers and the lives that have already been taken - this situation will not cease and will always continue until Hamas does not get to an agreement with the Israeli government.
The pictures used for this article were taken from www.timesonline.co.uk and www.independent.co.uk
Independent article used to write this story:
Times Online article used to write this story:
Gaza's profile (Wikipedia):
I'm not justifying anyone, but when you live under rocket fires for more than eight years, and you just get tired of political talking and appeals and all the paper work, once you invade the country from where the rockets come from, you do not think who and what you are killing and you just want to take revenge. I'm not saying it's right, no, it is wrong, but that is what happens.
ReplyDeleteAnd will you be explaining why these rockets get fired, or are Palestinians too much scum - that was the word you used, wasn't it? - to deserve balance?
I also see that you're dragging out the tired bull about human shields. Have you found any evidence for it yet, because I'm tired of waiting.
Oh, and the story came from last Friday's Ha'aretz. Not this week's UK papers.
ReplyDeleteWell this blog is all about UK papers, and I read them everyone, and for the UK papers, this is the first time that a story like this comes to light. And I don't have to explain or show you anything about the human shields because both you and I know they exist. I got better things to do with my time.
ReplyDeletePlus, I did make a point across the article and I hope you got it!
You know, you could just say 'I didn't know that, thanks'. It won't physically kill you, despite what you may believe.
ReplyDeleteOh, and I got your point. It's "when I say it's more complicated than that, what I really mean is that I'm going to talk about how hard things are for Israel and blame the Palestinians for it all. I'm also going to say that it's not the rank and file's fault for following orders (dodgy, given what they were ordered to do, IIRC we're right into rules of war territory), but I'll totally not go anywhere near exploring why those orders were issued...
"That's why I donated my Facebook profile to an Israeli group that registered how many Qassam rockets had fallen during the invasion of Gaza over Christmas (not how many fatalities they caused, because that number was close to sod all and wouldn't be nearly as scary).
"It's also why I flamed out when challenged on it, ranting that Palestinians are scum and that I support Israel because of my beliefs".
Also, what's this 'we', white man? I know you believe Hamas uses human shields, but since when did saying something automatically make it so?
As I keep saying, all the evidence I've found says that it's the IDF, in contravention of it's own judges that's using human shields and not Hamas.
You said that there's loads of reports from charities, but funnily enough, you won't name them. What, are you worried that I'll go round and break their kneecaps or something?
Oh, and I like the way you insinuate that the Palestinians would go around raping women. That's so classy. And when I say classy, I mean special.
You speaking of me putting words on other people's mouths - thing that's totally inaccurate - but that's exactly what you're doing, and you're very good at it. How shameful!
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I have never used the word "scum" nor have ever referred to any race or ethnicity the way you're trying to make me do. Get educated mate, when I say we, I mean either I - which is totally perfect to use in an academic essay or any formal type of writing, which by the way, even a blind monkey knows - or sometimes and I say we I simply mean Westerners, not white people. But if you're ignorant enough to say that all Westerners are white then you'll be the racist. Plus, I don't even considered myself totally white. You don't know where I come from or where my great-grand-parents came from, so calling me white isn't really fair, is it?
And by the way, If I simply don't want to give you the name of my sources is simply because I don't believe I have to explain anything to you. I've already told you where my sources come from, whether you wanna believe them or not is your problem, not mine. The funny thing is, that you know what I say is right, you just can't take it, can you? I'll tell you something else; get use to it, cause I'm not stopping. And I'm not saying anything else on that topic, so don't even bother to comment again if you're asking me the same thing because I'll simply ignore the message.
And just to make my point clear, I'm not afraid of you or of anyone. And I'm not particularly an aggressive person - unlike you - but if it comes to punching back, I will do it. So if you continue to get aggressive - as you have shown to be - "What, are you worried that I'll go round and break their kneecaps or something?" I will have to take actions. So you can come round and 'try' to break my kneecaps whenever you want, but I assure you, you'll regret it.
And please, let's keep the violent things out of my blog, because really mate, I don't wanna get into that stuff. In fact, I disagree with hurting someone to get a point across something.
First of all, I have never used the word "scum" nor have ever referred to any race or ethnicity the way you're trying to make me do
ReplyDeleteOh great, you're going to make me go dig it out, aren't you? And when I'm still trying to move around that horrible new Facebook interface...
Actually, there's no need for me too. You'd only ignore it anyway.
But yeah, if anyone wants to look, it's on his Facebook profile in January. He flames out over myself and some other guy (name begins with an A, IIRC), then apologises (insincerely, if I'm any judge) and after promising to read the essay I posted the subject never comes up again. Not that I was really surprised...
You don't know where I come from or where my great-grand-parents came from, so calling me white isn't really fair, is it?
It was a meme, a cultural manner of speaking, that you're taking literally. Given the bleeding obvious, do you actually think that I was using it seriously?
And by the way, If I simply don't want to give you the name of my sources is simply because I don't believe I have to explain anything to you.
And that is why you fail...
The funny thing is, that you know what I say is right, you just can't take it, can you?
Oooh, oooh, I call zebra! - and for the second time!
And I'm not particularly an aggressive person - unlike you - but if it comes to punching back, I will do it.
And where did I threaten violence against you? Oh wait, I didn't. Lame.
just to clarify something. Hamas offered many times to put down the weapons for atleast 10 years. This was rejected by Israel. The last truce there was between Israel and Hamas was broken by Israel. So "NO" you cant change the world within a day. But "YES" Hamas did make an effort. No one can deny such thing. Ask yourself why Hamas who were a charity group turned out to be military group?
ReplyDeleteThrough its funding and management of schools, health-care clinics, mosques, youth groups, athletic clubs and day-care centers, Hamas by the mid-1990s had attained a "well-entrenched" presence in the West Bank and Gaza.[18] An estimated 80 to 90 percent of Hamas revenues fund health, social welfare, religious, cultural, and educational services.[19][20][21]
Hamas's 1988 charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip. However, Ismail Haniyeh, Prime Minister of the Hamas government in Gaza, stated in 2008 that the group was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders and has offered Israel a long-term truce.
According to a website relaying a report published in Haaretz, a leading Hamas figure, Abdel Aziz Rantisi, stated in May, 2003 that the organization was willing to cease attacks on Israeli civilian targets if Israel stopped attacking Palestinian civilian targets:
"The Hamas movement is prepared to stop terrorism against Israeli civilians if Israel stops killing Palestinian civilians ... We have told (Palestinian Authority Prime Minister) Abu Mazen in our meetings that there is an opportunity to stop targeting Israeli civilians if the Israelis stop assassinations and raids and stop brutalizing Palestinian civilians."
I think Mr writer learn the history of Hamas before writing things.
also you right, which country dont make mistakes. if Israel or American kill 100s in a bombing. How much lines will be writen in newspapers? how many minutes will be spend on t.v regarding the incident? If Hamas kills 2 civilians. It will be in news atleast for a week. Thats the reality, thats facts. They dont come from my "pocket" but they are proven.
ReplyDeleteAlso next time someone is talking about getting his point across, then please provide sources. Otherwise just say that you are giving your opinion.
First of all - and this message is to Mark - I'm not gonna reply to any of your messages because now you're just talking nonsense. I can back up every single word I say and every single word I don't say. And to my judge, you are just a big times BS talker!
ReplyDeleteLike you support the palestinians I support Israel, and just as you got your reasons to support whoever you want and to believe in whatever you believe, I have reasons to support whoever I wanna support and reasons - good reasons - to believe in whatever I wanna believe.
Oh now, please, do show where I've referred to the Palestinians as - as you Mark said - "scums." Show me, come on! I'll be glad to see how you make up a lie.
However I do wanna answer one question: "Oh, and I like the way you insinuate that the Palestinians would go around raping women. That's so classy. And when I say classy, I mean special."
When have I ever said that Palestinians do that? Where? Show me! Oh wait, I haven't.
Oh Mark, I thought you were more intelligent than that. At least, if you wanna put words on other people's mouths, make it less obvious, because you just make it sound so... cheap!
"It was a meme, a cultural manner of speaking, that you're taking literally. Given the bleeding obvious, do you actually think that I was using it seriously?"
What a cheap excuse! Do you really wanna know what you sound like? Oh no, come on, I didn't mean it that way.
How pathetic!
Now to you Billy. Let's say that Hamas did offer Israel 10 years of cease fire. Why didn't the Israelis accept it? Because they knew that in 10 years time, they would come back again, stronger and better-trained. That's why the Israelis didn't take the cease fire.
ReplyDeleteAnd as I have asked many times before, if Hamas really cares about their people, the Palestinians, why don't they just cease fire forever? Why don't they just stop firing rockets to South Israel once and for all? Why does no one answer me that question? I'll tell you why - and this goes to you too Mark - because they don't care about their people. And that's what I'm trying to get across with my articles and comments.
Plus, Billy, stop calling Hamas a military group because they're a terrorist group.
"The Gaza Strip is a coastal strip of land on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea bordering Egypt and Israel. It is one of the most densely populated places on earth.[48][49] According to the CIA Factbook as of July 2008, it holds a population of 1,500,202 on an area of 360 square kilometers (139 sq mi)"
ReplyDeleteTHIS WHY HAMAS EXISTS.
"A massive influx of Palestinian refugees swelled Gaza's population after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. By 1967, the population had grown to about six times its 1948 size.[40] In 1997, 51.8% of Gaza's inhabitants were refugees or their descendants.[75] The city's population has continued to increase since that time to 409,680 in 2006, making it the largest city in the Palestinian territories"
ANSWER MY QUESTION: BETWEEN THE BAD SITUATION IN GAZA AND THE CREATION OF HAMAS, WHY DID ISRAEL(MODEL OF DEMOCRATY) DID NOT FIND A SOLUTION WITH PALESTINIANS?
I WILL GIVE YOU THE ANSWER, BECAUSE MOST OF THE PALESTINIANS WEHTER U LIKE IT OR NOT, HATE ISRAEL. SO ARE U GOING TO CALL THEM ALL TERRORISTS?
YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY HAMAS DONT STOP FIRING ROCKETS? BECAUSE WETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, THEY DEFENDING THEMSELVES FROM ISRAELIS OPPRESSION.
AND WETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT I AM FREE TO BELEIVE AND TO CALL HAMAS A MILITARY GROUP ELECTED DEMOCRATICALY BY THE MAJORITY OF A NATION.
Hamas is particularly popular among Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, though it also has a following in the West Bank, and to a lesser extent in other Middle Eastern countries. Its popularity stems in part from its welfare and social services to Palestinians in the occupied territories, including school and hospital construction. The group devotes much of its estimated $70 million annual budget to an extensive social services network, running many relief and education programs, and funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. Such services arent't generally provided by The Palestinian Authority. According to the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz "approximately 90 percent of the organization's work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities".
ReplyDeleteEXPLAIN TO ME WHY PEOPLE THAT DONT EVEN CARE FOR THEIR PEOPLE SPEND 90% OF THEIR TIME LOOKING AFTER THEIR PEOPLE INSTED OF FIRING ROCKETS? THIS IS NOT THE FARC YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. THIS IS A REAL GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LOVED BY A MAJORITY OF PALESTINIAN NATION. I DARE YOU TO CALL ALL THOSE CIVILIANS PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT HAMAS "TERRORITS" WHY DONT U DO IT? I SHALL PAY FOR YOUR TICKET AND TAKE YOU TO PALESTINE TO INTERVIEW THE PEOPLE FROM THERE TO SEE HOW WRONG YOU ARE.
YOUR MISTAKE IS NOT TO HAVE AN OPINION, YOUR MISTAKE IS TO FORCE PEOPLE TO TO BELIEVE IN YOUR OPINION WHICH IS UNTIL NOW THE MOST DEBATABLE SUBJECT IN THE WORLD.
If you say that Hama is only 'defending' themselves from the Israelis, I shall then say that Israel has the right to defend themselves as well, and attack Gaza if necessary.
ReplyDeleteAnd you haven't answered my question. Why if Hamas does take care of their people and if they really help them, why don't they just stop and cease fires forever? Once and for all. I'm not talking about a truce, I'm talking about a total cease fire.
Here's the question, they don't care about their people. As we all know, most of the people in Gaza are poor and hungry, and they need a lot of help. A Hamas being very intelligent, literally buys the people of Gaza by giving them food and some of the things they need. That's what really going on down there, and that's something that if you even saw with your own eyes, you'll never recognised.
And I am not calling all Palestinians terrorists, please don't put words in my mind, but whether you like it or not, and whether you believe it or not, Hamas - and those are the people who I call terrorists - is a terrorist group.
First of all - and this message is to Mark - I'm not gonna reply to any of your messages because now you're just talking nonsense. I can back up every single word I say and every single word I don't say. And to my judge, you are just a big times BS talker!
ReplyDeleteOh, little Zebra!
You can't back it up. I've been asking you in two threads to do it and you have always refused, with excuses from the lame ("I don't have to prove anything to you!") to the surreal ("you don't deserve to know!").
You have argued dishonestly in every way, from false equivalences to misrepresenting me so you can claim that I threatened violence.
And you know what the funny thing is? I haven't actually been trying to pull you down; I've only posted on your most egregious failures in the hope that it would help you shape up as a journalist. I wanted to see you rock out, but you just flamed out instead.
You yourself, through flawed logic and the way in which you immediately reached for strawmen, misrepresentations and borderline slanders have done more to yourself than I ever could.
And that is hilarious. I mean, I was hoping you wouldn't do this, I was hoping that you would show grit and values, but this has been just as entertaining.
Bye-bye, little zebra. And remember, you are stupid.
Give it time...it'll eat at you.
ALSO I WANT TO COME BACK TO A COMMENT YOU MADE EARLIER. AND IT IS A SHAME TO HEAR IT FROM U. YOU SAID EVERY COUNTRIES MAKE MISTAKE, SO IF ISRAEL MAKE THEM IT IS OK. ALSO YOU JUSTIFIED ISRAEL ARMY BY SAYING THAT ATLEAST THEY DONT RAPE. THESE ARE THE MEANING OF YOUR WORDS "KILL, BUT DONT RAPE"
ReplyDeleteALSO WHY DONT ISRAEL STOP ATTACKING HAMAS? BECAUSE THEY DONT CARE ABOUT THEIR OWN PEOPLE.
ReplyDeleteYOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN ASSUMPTIONS MIKE, AND REMEMBER ON TOP OF EVERY KNOWLEDGABLE PERSON THERE IS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS BEST....
This message is to Mark: You can say whatever you want about me, but you do know everything I said can be backed up. I've given you evidence and the names of my sources. What, do you want me to bring them all the way from the Middle East? Not gonna happen, you're not worth it.
ReplyDeleteAnd please, I insist. Please, show me the messages where you say I have referred to the Palestinians as 'scums'. Please show me the messages. Show them to me, and I'll regret everything I said, and I'll apologise for all the comments I've made.
Good luck with making them up!
This message is for Billy: Why doesn't Israel stop attacking Hamas? Because if they do, Hamas will kill them all. You don't understand do you? Hamas is the enemy and it needs to be destroyed. That's it. If the Israelis even thought about giving a little bit of freedom to Hamas, that'd be the end for the Israelis.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you asked me, I'd say that it is better to go to a place and only kill, and not rape people and then kill them.
And why are you trying to avoid the question? If Hamas does care about their people like you say, why don't they cease fire once and for all? Why don't they stop firing rockets to South Israel forever? I know you're not gonna give me the answer, but that doesn't matter because I already know it. They don't care! That's why.
are u stupid or u acting like one?
ReplyDeleteor maybe its me who is not right in the head??
i already answer your question, and on top you avoided many of mine?
i think i am going to have to stop commenting, on this point. because now i have the answer to one thing: I AM TALKING TO AN IGNORANT. do u know whats an ignorant? the one who thinks that he has got knowledge when he hasnt!!!! because the student is the one who hasnt got knowledge and knows he hasnt got it.
its a shame tho because i thought it will be more like an educative debate, and i have lots of experience in debates and this one is just like i am debating with a child.
no offence, i am not trying to put anyone down, insted i just hope you and other readers can learn from it.
The only one ignorant here is the one who does not open his eyes and sees the reality as it is. And that person is you!
ReplyDeleteno not only me. the majority of palestinians dont see it either. maybe you are right i dont see the reality because i am not there, but i spoke to some people who have been working for palestinians all their lifes. and i shall get soon some association pro palestinians to see the content of your comments as i was advised to do so because me i am out of it regarding this subject. and i hope you will open their eyes to your so call "reality"
ReplyDeleteFair enough!
ReplyDelete